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How can we connect communities and visitors along the Wales Coast Path? »

Llwybrau Byw! - Living Paths!

What problem are you trying to address? :
Green tourism: what's around me? What makes it different?

How will your idea work? : There are two parts, fist we meet local groups and show them how to add information onto a Wikipedia page: and that's really simple! Secondly we show them how their articles can be geotagged. The best part is enjoying a walk down the path with a smart phone, with any AR tagged articles shown through the camera, informing the User (tourist or local) about what's around them: history of that unusual building or where's the nearest Young Farmers Club? What's the name of that mountain, and where's the nearest toilet! Take a look at MonmouthpediA on Wikipedia and multiply it by 10!

How will it provide a solution to the Challenge? : It's the best answer possible! The local WI (or Merched y Wawr) will bring along old photographs, which would be scanned in and uploaded, and their locations geotagged. They would learn new skills on how to edit existing articles and how to create new ones. The local chapel could write about the history of their chapel, and so could the local cafe - including the opening times! Schools could show off their latest Brochure for Parents and even nature clubs could write about the local habitats. This is about: bringing people together in order to inform walkers, cyclists and joggers what's around them.

What is the stage of development? What help and investment you need to build it?: Because Wikipedia is so simple, it's ideal for this project. Communities know about the geography and history, and culture of their area MUCH better than an app writer or web-author sitting in his office in Manchester! Wikimedia UK would be asked to run the scheme, employing Wikipedians, just as the National Library does in London... and the National Museum etc. Their help would be crucial. Welsh Wicipedians have also shown their enthusiasm and would filter out any unwanted vandalism. Wikipedia has a proven track record: why re-create the wheel all the time? It's an app which is already installed on most iPads and iPhones! Pure and simple.

How will you use Ordnance Survey data in your solution? : See below.

Let's get rid of the Web Designer! Let's get rid of a 'closed', app which no one knows about! Let's get rid of the Sensor-editor.... and nurture an educated community who can be taught very, very simply how to create a Living Path! All along the route local societies and communities can build their very own Wikipedia articles, geo-tagged for Augmented Reality and maps in Cymraeg or English.

Submitted by Llywelyn 2 years ago

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Comments (17)

  1. Great you are keeping things real. I suppose heavily mediated representations circulating around sights can sometimes be more important than the sites themselves.

    2 years ago
    1. Llywelyn Idea Submitter

      Yes, simplicity is essential. Why spend millions in re-inventing the wheel all the time - Wikipedia (cy and en) is very, very simple to use. Llwybrau Byw! was presented yesterday in Monmouth to WikimediaUK Board members, who gave their backing to this idea and offer to help in any way.

      1 year ago
  2. I like this idea not just because it gets back to basics but also because if provides the distributed solution I've been advocating in other posts. The logistics of meeting local groups and showing them how would need to be tackled but there are other projects underway in Wales that could provide a relatively inexpensive platform for this.

    1 year ago
    1. Llywelyn Idea Submitter

      Diolch Terry. Many of the ideas posted so far can also be taken aboard e.g. geotagging decent restaurants close to the path. Clwb Mynydda Cymru (Mountain Walking Welsh Language Association) have been approached and are keen in working with us, especially with the safety aspect of walking nearby hills. Each hill, peak and mountain has it's own unique set of dangers, which need to be on the articles. Accessibility from the path is another aspect which they will help to provide. As you say, we would need to create partnerships with other groups / specialists in their field who already know the layout of the local area. The beauty of putting everything on Wikipedia (Cymraeg and English, and other languages) is that it will still be there years after GeoVation!

      1 year ago
  3. It might be worth hooking up with the Wales Settlements Project & WikiWales project noted at https://challenge.geovation.org.uk/a/dtd/iTaith/119296-16422 and https://challenge.geovation.org.uk/a/dtd/Local-Stories/111726-16422. It's an all Wales project that will feature the Wales Coast Path but hasn't been entered in the GeoVation competition owing to EU funding complexities. It is, nevertheless, a reality that won't occur a vacuum and could provide one of the outreach platforms I mentioned.

    1 year ago
  4. Just Googled Coatal Path Cymru and ended here! What a great idea! I can immediately see the power of Wicipedia!!! It's a brilliant solution - I use it quite a lot at work, and everything can be placed on it - even what Terry mentions about the meaning of Welsh names. Indeed that already happens to some extent on Wicipedia, but could be enhanced. Most Welsh place-names are explained e.g. http://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarddiad_yr_enw_Mynwy

    The Geology ideas (Tectonic Island) etc can all be written on Wicipedia. I'm not sure if it's allowed in this competition, but I think that the University at Bangor could contribute.

    Can you add maps on Wikipedia too? I don't think that's possible, though.

    1 year ago
  5. There's http://wikimapia.org but unlike Wikipedia it's privately owned with content available for non-commercial use only at present. I think anything goes in this competition as long as its legal. But I would agonise over duplicate content issues if borrowing stuff from Wikipedia and would feel uncomfortable building a commercial application within that kind of environment. Is there an answer to this?

    1 year ago
  6. If it's for 'educational' use rather than commercial it shouldn't be a problem. Duplication is never a good thing. As far as the geology ideas go, the "outrop museum" concept is the result of considerable collaborative research and investment on the part of Bangor University. The limited toolset of wiki/wikimapia wouldn't give sites best advantage or inspire a new generation of learners, but a great way to build context around sites. Maybe a wiki-widget on the geo-guide/tectonic dashboard would be one way of opening the 'outcrop museum' up? I really like the idea of 'cultural geology' and think this would be one way of introducing a participatory element, i.e. it is no longer the primordial past but a "lived" experience.

    1 year ago
  7. Maps can be added to Wikipedia pages, provided they are genuinly public domain. Fortunately all the OS OpenData maps are available, and would be great for this. To build upon the already rich Wikipedia resources would be fantastic. People living in or visiting the area, and also anyone wanting to explore from a distance would benefit.

    1 year ago
  8. The People's Collection works on the same principle. Funded by Welsh Government the investment has been justified on its educational value though I'm not sure to what extent it's used by schools as a resource at present. With information from the Collection being free at point of use it would be impossible to measure roi in monetary terms, which would be crucial to a sustainable business plan in a commercial setting.

    1 year ago
    1. Llywelyn Idea Submitter

      Yes, the People's Collection is only a history based resource, my vision is for every aspect: physical, spiritual and human; geology and language.

      There are benchmarks which are quantifiable, Terry: the most important one would be the increase in editing of Welsh Wikipedian articles and viewing those articles. These statistics are very easy to view and grasp. Example:


      We can view the number of edits / views for every article or as a whole Wiki.

      We can also view the most prolific users, in order, so we would know exactly how many articles and edits User:Bangor Geology Erin would have done.

      Wikipedia is both free and simple: therein lies it's greatness.

      1 year ago
  9. I love the vision and the Wikimedia resource is spectacular. The WikiWales project mentioned in an earlier post has identified half a dozen other resources that could contribute to a successful outcome and raises the duplicate content issue in its Business Plan Report:

    'An issue in republishing content from Wikipedia and other data sources is that the content, particularly textual content, may be considered duplicate content by Google and other search engines. Care should be taken that the site does not simply become a Wikipedia clone, but mixes content from a variety of sources and adds value.'

    It's the adds value bit that returns us then to the commercial element and sustainability but I think it can be cracked.

    1 year ago
    1. Llywelyn Idea Submitter

      Please re-read my vision. I said: "...fist we meet local groups and show them how to add information onto a Wikipedia page." I'm certainly not suggesting "duplicating content", "cloning" or "republishing content". Where did you get this idea from?

      What I said was in my second opening sentence was: "fist we meet local groups and show them how to add information onto a Wikipedia page."

      This, Terry means NOT reinventing the wheel, but inputting directly into Wikipedia. Why spend thousands to build an app no one can find? Thanks to Layar and other QR orientated software for your iPhone or smart phone - Wikipedia is inbuilt! It's in every smartphone. Editing Wikipedia (and Wicipedia) directly is all that needs to be done!

      100% of the funding would be paid to help, encourage and enable communities to actually write directly about themselves rather than recreate another wheel.

      1 year ago
  10. We're both on the same side here. The duplicate content issue only arises when sourcing content from wikis to mash with commercial content to generate business. Doing that within wikis goes against their ethic otherwise it would have been exploited before now. Wikis are brilliant for supply-end activity and content management but consumer marketing just isn't their bag.

    1 year ago
  11. Llywelyn Idea Submitter

    This just reached me from a Wikipedian in Holland:

    What would really be cool is if you could somehow hook the international walkers in - I know that many foreigners hike those trails and if you put QR-pedia codes in strategic places you could ask them to add a wikipedia page in their own language for other hikers and win a prize. The benefits are that this group often has a smart phone and time on their hands in the evening, as well as natural curiosity about the places they visit along the way.

    What a great idea!

    1 year ago
  12. It gets better all the time! :) I'd seriously like to hook this up with the Wales Settlements Project & WikiWales, which already has funding.

    1 year ago
  13. Good, i never would have thought that wikipedia could help connect people to the coastal path.

    1 year ago